The Awakening Vs. Healing Path (And How They Converge) w/ Derek Haswell
Happier Co-Founder Derek Haswell dropping some major wisdom on a majorly under the radar topic
Listen on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube.
If you like reading or listening to this podcast, feel free to click the ❤️ or 🔄 button on this post so more people can discover it on Substack 🙏
"Joy and stuff that's lighting you up is the not-so-secret signal that something is working for you." (44:20 in this cast)
Derek Haswell is the co-founder of the award-winning meditation app, Happier, where he spent the better part of a decade producing content with some of the world’s best meditation teachers & scientists — including the Dalai Lama.
He now spends his time as an executive coach — helping leaders drive more impact while becoming more aligned. In this conversation, we explore the difference between the waking up path and healing.
I was excited to explore this topic with Derek because many people, myself included, have experienced the limitations of pursuing either meditation or healing work in isolation.
His perspective on integrating both approaches while staying grounded in joy and authenticity is refreshing and practical.
At the end of the conversation, Derek does a live demo on yours truly to showcase how these two pathways can be integrated in your practice.
This episode is great for:
Meditators hitting limitations with their practice
People in therapy wondering about spirituality
Anyone feeling stuck between different modalities
Those questioning if they're doing spirituality "right"
Leaders looking to integrate inner work with outer success
Anyone curious about parts work or Internal Family Systems
Ideas that really stuck out to me:
Awakening and Healing Are Distinct Paths: While often conflated under the broad stroke of “mindfulness”, the path of awakening (seeing reality clearly) and the path of healing (integrating all parts of ourselves) are different journeys that ultimately complement each other. Understanding this distinction can help you determine the right starting place and eventually move towards integration.
Pressure Builds When We Ignore Either Path: Whether we focus solely on meditation or therapy/healing work, pressure tends to build until we're naturally drawn to incorporate the other dimension. When combined, we move closer to wholeness.
Joy Is Intelligence: Rather than following some prescription based on what others do, following what brings us genuine joy and curiosity can be a profound form of guidance. This challenges our cultural emphasis on discipline and "shoulds" in spiritual practice.
Parts Work Opens Doorways to Presence: Working with different aspects of ourselves through modalities like Internal Family Systems or Aletheia can actually create direct portals into deeper presence and awareness.
Love Transforms Relationships: When we heal our own patterns and open our hearts, relationships often transform sometimes without direct intervention. This points to the interconnected nature of consciousness.
Your Path Will Emerge: Whatever practice or teaching we need tends to emerge naturally as we need it. This means you can relax your spiritual ambition and trust life's intelligence.
Derek's framework of awakening and healing as complementary paths deeply resonates with my experience.
For years, I pushed hard on the meditation path while unconsciously resisting healing work. When I finally opened to both dimensions, the integration felt natural and profound.
His emphasis on following joy rather than obligation also mirrors my journey from spiritual striving to a more organic unfolding.
Derek is an amazing human with lots of wisdom. I hope you enjoy this conversation!
- Scott
👋 P.S. added some new format elements in the quote and who would benefit sections. Let me know if you like them!
If you liked reading or listening to this, feel free to click the ❤️ or 🔄 button on this post so more people can discover it on Substack 🙏
Recommended Resources:
Episode Transcript
Show notes:
00:00 - Awakening Through Pain
02:57 - The Struggles of Meditation
06:06 - Waking Up vs. Healing
08:55 - The Interplay of Healing and Awakening
12:08 - Finding Your Path
14:49 - The Shift in Practice
18:05 - Joy as a Guide
21:06 - Navigating Suffering
24:08 - The Role of Intuition
26:58 - The Power of Presence
29:50 - Integrating Parts Work
33:06 - The Adventure of Inner Work
35:56 - The Dying of the Old Self
38:57 - Emerging Intuition
42:05 - The Dance of Parts and Presence
44:47 - Exploring the Depths of Experience
51:43 - Exploring Sadness and Self-Compassion
53:49 - Connecting with the Inner Child
57:00 - Embracing Unconditional Love
01:00:03 - Integration and Transformation
01:09:00 - Debriefing the Healing Process
Wow, great conversation guys! Thanks for putting words to something I've been feeling for a while now!
In going down the path of Buddhist meditation I've felt at one point that I was doing a lot of bypassing, and still somehow stuck in patterns that "should" have been solved through all of this silent practice. But in reality I found that I could access deep states of stillness and presence and not actually work on those messy/painful things directly. Metta and the bramaviharas did wonders for me, yet there was still something lacking.
Out of the therapy and coaching I've received, IFS and somatic experiencing have been the most transformative for me to heal trauma and to let go of destructive thought patterns. There's also all the work on attachment styles and coming to understand my own behaviors this way in relationships. I resonate a lot with what you said Scott about meditation strengthening the Witness, making the healing work easier to approach from a place of curious unfolding.
Speaking of which, I've started my Aletheia training, and it has been super cool to see the integration of these various depths in a coherent framework. It's brought together a lot of the work I've been doing the last few years and giving it a fresh new, integrated lens. Thanks so much man, wouldn't have found it if it wasn't for you! :)
"Meditation or healing work in isolation" immediately gave me shivers as it resonates with me so much! 😲
Wow! Great stuff man! Keep up the great work! 👏