Wow, great conversation guys! Thanks for putting words to something I've been feeling for a while now!
In going down the path of Buddhist meditation I've felt at one point that I was doing a lot of bypassing, and still somehow stuck in patterns that "should" have been solved through all of this silent practice. But in reality I found that I could access deep states of stillness and presence and not actually work on those messy/painful things directly. Metta and the bramaviharas did wonders for me, yet there was still something lacking.
Out of the therapy and coaching I've received, IFS and somatic experiencing have been the most transformative for me to heal trauma and to let go of destructive thought patterns. There's also all the work on attachment styles and coming to understand my own behaviors this way in relationships. I resonate a lot with what you said Scott about meditation strengthening the Witness, making the healing work easier to approach from a place of curious unfolding.
Speaking of which, I've started my Aletheia training, and it has been super cool to see the integration of these various depths in a coherent framework. It's brought together a lot of the work I've been doing the last few years and giving it a fresh new, integrated lens. Thanks so much man, wouldn't have found it if it wasn't for you! :)
That’s interesting on the point about awakening and healing. I view them as inseparable. Reminded me of this from A Course in Miracles section on “the purpose of psychotherapy”:
“Very simply, the purpose of psychotherapy is to remove the blocks to truth. Its aim is to aid the patient in abandoning his fixed delusional system, and to begin to reconsider the spurious cause and effect relationships on which it rests.”
“Psychotherapy is the only form of therapy there is. Since only the mind can be sick, only the mind can be healed. Only the mind is in need of healing.”
I think in practice they can diverge. It also depends on what we mean by ‘awakening,’ since there are so many flavors and definitions.
For example you can look at reality through the three doors of awakening — using Buddhist language here — and see that all things are impermanent and lacking inherent existence. You can see that all things are “fabricated,” and this brings a tremendous amount of relief. You can then integrate this sense of selflessness over time.
But in doing so, you could look at an emotion and see completely through it, as empty. You can, in fact, completely bypass the need to heal a part of you that is hurting at a emotional/somatic level and still tap into ‘ways of seeing’ that are profound and nondual.
Looking at an emotion (or anything else) as empty might be useful as a spiritual practice but not from the perspective of healing. Healing might require me to work with that part of myself which is still dictating behaviors more directly.
Great discussion guys and I'm glad this stimulated some cool dialogue. Also epic to hear you're taking Aletheia! I think a main thing where these paths differ for me, was my early meditation was all about letting things pass by. The healing is more about getting curious about them and what is causing them. Both forms of practice have served me and increasingly come together in a dynamic relationship with reality arising
I both agree and disagree! At the end of the day, it seems to me that these paths eventually converge. AND as Misha said, these can diverge in practical methods.
I’ve been deeply influence by the late meditation teacher Rob Burbea, who offers that our “ways of looking” shape our reality. As we clear/heal the lenses through which we view the world, we see things differently.
Wow, great conversation guys! Thanks for putting words to something I've been feeling for a while now!
In going down the path of Buddhist meditation I've felt at one point that I was doing a lot of bypassing, and still somehow stuck in patterns that "should" have been solved through all of this silent practice. But in reality I found that I could access deep states of stillness and presence and not actually work on those messy/painful things directly. Metta and the bramaviharas did wonders for me, yet there was still something lacking.
Out of the therapy and coaching I've received, IFS and somatic experiencing have been the most transformative for me to heal trauma and to let go of destructive thought patterns. There's also all the work on attachment styles and coming to understand my own behaviors this way in relationships. I resonate a lot with what you said Scott about meditation strengthening the Witness, making the healing work easier to approach from a place of curious unfolding.
Speaking of which, I've started my Aletheia training, and it has been super cool to see the integration of these various depths in a coherent framework. It's brought together a lot of the work I've been doing the last few years and giving it a fresh new, integrated lens. Thanks so much man, wouldn't have found it if it wasn't for you! :)
Love this comment, Misha. This all sounds very familiar!
Look forward to connecting at some point, and hearing how Aletheia lands for you.
That’s interesting on the point about awakening and healing. I view them as inseparable. Reminded me of this from A Course in Miracles section on “the purpose of psychotherapy”:
“Very simply, the purpose of psychotherapy is to remove the blocks to truth. Its aim is to aid the patient in abandoning his fixed delusional system, and to begin to reconsider the spurious cause and effect relationships on which it rests.”
“Psychotherapy is the only form of therapy there is. Since only the mind can be sick, only the mind can be healed. Only the mind is in need of healing.”
I think in practice they can diverge. It also depends on what we mean by ‘awakening,’ since there are so many flavors and definitions.
For example you can look at reality through the three doors of awakening — using Buddhist language here — and see that all things are impermanent and lacking inherent existence. You can see that all things are “fabricated,” and this brings a tremendous amount of relief. You can then integrate this sense of selflessness over time.
But in doing so, you could look at an emotion and see completely through it, as empty. You can, in fact, completely bypass the need to heal a part of you that is hurting at a emotional/somatic level and still tap into ‘ways of seeing’ that are profound and nondual.
Looking at an emotion (or anything else) as empty might be useful as a spiritual practice but not from the perspective of healing. Healing might require me to work with that part of myself which is still dictating behaviors more directly.
Great discussion guys and I'm glad this stimulated some cool dialogue. Also epic to hear you're taking Aletheia! I think a main thing where these paths differ for me, was my early meditation was all about letting things pass by. The healing is more about getting curious about them and what is causing them. Both forms of practice have served me and increasingly come together in a dynamic relationship with reality arising
I both agree and disagree! At the end of the day, it seems to me that these paths eventually converge. AND as Misha said, these can diverge in practical methods.
I’ve been deeply influence by the late meditation teacher Rob Burbea, who offers that our “ways of looking” shape our reality. As we clear/heal the lenses through which we view the world, we see things differently.
Totally, I love Rob’s work! “Seeing that Frees” and the seven fold reasoning (amongst other practices) were pivotal for me.
Thank you for sharing your profound insights . This is the first time I have read such a clear explanation.
Thanks Smita. I’m glad to hear it was helpful.
Thank you Smita! Derek is a very wise and kind person!
"Meditation or healing work in isolation" immediately gave me shivers as it resonates with me so much! 😲
Wow! Great stuff man! Keep up the great work! 👏
Thanks! Gotta start somewhere, but eventually one brings up the other or vice versa : )
What about it resonated for you Angelo?
I dig the who would benefit section
Thanks man. I think it's useful too!